My private parts are PRIVATE!
As the date for my SRS quickly approaches, a very unwelcome kind of weirdness has sprung up amongst my friends: wanting to see my new vagina.
I’m at a loss to explain this really. There have been no requests to view my pre-surgery genitals (to make a comparison), only requests to see the post surgical results. Even stranger, the requests come exclusively from women. Am I missing out on some ritualistic part of womanhood? Do cis females throw parties where they all inspect each other’s vaginas?
I think not.
So why this weirdness? As I said, I’m pretty sure that cis women don’t usually show their vaginas to each other. This leads me to the conclusion that this is another facet of the ‘ownership’ of trans bodies by cis people. By ownership, I mean the strange psychology that leads cis people to grab the breasts or crotch of trans people in public and ask them about their genitals in public. Cis people seem to think they have a right to know about our bodies and what we’ve done to them, even though they would not volunteer such information about themselves.
This is obviously why they feel that they are also entitled to see my post-surgery genitals.
But one wonders WHY they want to see my vagina when they had no interest in my pre-vagina state. As I said earlier, there can be no basis for comparison without seeing the ‘before’. One can only assume then that their sole interest in viewing my vagina is vetting the authenticity of my lady parts and making a comparison to their OWN lady parts.
This vetting process is, of course, just another facet of cis people deciding whether or not you’re allowed to be a woman. If your vagina doesn’t match up to their (biased) expectations, then you’re relegated back to the “almost woman” category and looked upon as a kind of second class woman who can never match up the vaunted first class or ‘real’ women. You can guarantee that they will find flaws in your vaginal construction that invalidate your femininity, even though their OWN vagina would not stand up to such intense scrutiny.
And that’s what it’s all really about – making sure that they feel that their ‘real’ vagina is superior to my ‘fake’ vagina, bolstering their authenticity as a ‘real’ woman and putting me in my place as a ‘fake’ woman.
So I have decided that I’m not going to show my vagina to anyone but my partner and my doctor. I’m not going to subject myself to being judged by an impossible standard by a biased jury. I will not give cis people an excuse to trash trans people by saying to their friends “Oh, I’ve seen a transsexual vagina – it wasn’t that great really, you could TOTALLY tell that it wasn’t a real one”.
Their unhealthy obsession with my post-surgical genitalia will just have to remain unsatisfied. Their imaginations can run wild with conjecture as to how authentic it looks, but they will never actually know.
Grats on getting SRS setup, good luck and may your recovery be swift!
I agree with your post entirely, there *is* a weird fetishism when it comes to trans vaginas, labias, and vulvas. Because at the end of the day, it is precisely cis privilege and exoticism that is driving that. Time and again I see people ask “can you have sex?” “does it work?” “does pee come out of it?” (no, she’d pee through her nose, that’s a hidden side effect of SRS, you see.) But it’s because it fascinates them that it’s even possible to have this kind of surgery and so naturally cis people do indeed want to compare.
It’s creepy because it’s hard to imagine circumstances where a cis woman gets vital surgery *on* her vitals and friends want to queue up before her stirruped in a hospital bed so they can get a good look up her. Time and again we have to go through the “my body, my effing private space, sod off” routine.
This is just another one. Thanks for speaking out, Cate.
Quinnae Moongazer
21 Oct 10 at 4:33 pm
First off, congrats and good luck on your upcoming surgery!
Second of all, as a cis woman, I have to admit to a (slight) curiosity as to the look of post-SRS genitals. Although really, I probably wouldn’t even have thought of the idea had it not been brought up here (or anywhere else that I would have read it). As for why that curiosity? Simple desire, I think, however transient, to know what it looks like. “Oh, huh. Okay,” instead of, “Oh, wow, that’s cool/useless/weird/whatever.” To see how it was done, instead of comparing it against some mythical “normal” genital.
On the other hand, it would never even occur to me to ask anyone who had undertaken such surgery to show the results to me!
Seamyst
21 Oct 10 at 5:28 pm
I’m a cis woman who has had vulvovaginal surgery, and no, no one (who knows about it) was all asking me to see it before & after. As you already know, you’re not missing out on anything, that is not a normal & expected inquiry.
(PS I tried posting this from my mobile device too and I think I had some kind of IT problem so if this appears 2x plz feel free to delete 1.)
K__
21 Oct 10 at 5:47 pm
I remember somewhere on a news article about a murdered trans woman of color, that a cis woman was going on about how she’d seen a trans woman at a nude beach and judged her vagina wanting, and judged this a personal failing that the trans woman was responsible for.
It’s really grotesque and unnecessary.
Lisa Harney
21 Oct 10 at 5:58 pm
I’m at a loss. I cannot imagine asking anybody if I could see their genitals, no matter what their circumstances were. I’m glad you’ve got your head screwed on and you’re not planning to comply.
At the same time I agree with Seamyst that there is a level of curiosity there. I do wonder what the results of reconstructive genital surgery are like.
I also wonder what the results of ritualised clitoral mutilation are like (you read explanations of what is removed, but it’s so hard to imagine. I have heard about women who have been so severely cut that the area is completely blank and smooth but for a tiny hole).
Not quite as curious about cosmetic surgery on labial folds though… there are plenty photos of those already. Many, many men probably still don’t know what a non-”corrected” vulva looks like…
Miriam
21 Oct 10 at 6:45 pm
When I was preparing for my surgery my therapist mentioned that she was about to have some facial surgery which would cost about the same as mine did. I chuckled a bit and said “Well, at least you’ll be able to show it off to more people than I will!”
Good healing, and don’t forget to pack a couple boxes of baby wipes. They’re worth their weight in gold : )
Jessica
21 Oct 10 at 6:53 pm
Miriam; I would suggest that if you (and Seamyst) are curious about the results then you could refer to the Internet for images of post SRS results.
Many of the surgeons who perform the procedure have ‘after’ images on their sites for the curious to peruse.
The women who offered these pictures for public scrutiny have pre-approved your viewing, so you won’t have to do someone the disservice of asking to see their pink bits :-)
cate j
21 Oct 10 at 6:56 pm
Thanks for the tip, Jessica!
cate j
21 Oct 10 at 7:09 pm
@miriam and @seamyst: I think your proving cate’s point, in a really gross and voyeuristic way.
And considering that the vast majority of girls and women who have been genitally mutilated are people of color, this voyeurism starts to feel racist to me.
Not to mention that comparing trans folk having surgery that we *need* to non-consensual genital mutilation is really, really othering of trans folk and builds on cis notions of trans-related surgery as “mutilation”.
Personally, I wish the two of you would knock it off and go satisfy your curiosity somewhere else.
@cate: I hope your surgery goes well!
GallingGalla
21 Oct 10 at 7:52 pm
Let it be repeated, if not previously stated, that one Dr. Anne Lawrence did make a habit of requesting to see the post-surgical results and taking photographs. Not knowing better at the time, I agreed. After I learned more about the case of her termination of employment, removal of the photos from her website was requested.
The only people who “need” to see the results are your self, partner(s), and any medical specialist dealing with an issue. Headaches do not qualify as a justification (yes, a neurologist did…)
b. sanford
21 Oct 10 at 10:01 pm
“Do cis females throw parties where they all inspect each other’s vaginas?” Some do. It’s usually for some sort of group therapy so they can learn to accept their bodies. (Otherwise we call them orgies.)
Most likely your friends are NOT the kind that have genital-acceptance parties, or you’d be invited to one where they’d show you theirs before they’d expect anything of the same in return, instead of them trying to place you on display.
The Nerd
21 Oct 10 at 10:19 pm
FWIW when I was a teenager my group of friends and I did indeed look at each others vulvas. I think it was the kind of “Is this normal?” kind of thing
However I do feel that what your friends have asked is completely unacceptable and yet another example of how fucked up the power dynamics between cis and trans people are.
sabrina
21 Oct 10 at 11:59 pm
Wow. I’m a cis woman, and I couldn’t help but find myself nodding and smiling (and nodding) through this whole post. Again, I’m speaking from a socially privileged perspective, but I wonder if perhaps there is also this “ooo can I see” mentality among cis people because trans people, particularly trans women, are often put up as a kind of gender form of minstrel show or other forms of “entertainment” (I am also of woman of color, so I make that analogy from a past AND present POV). If, similar to celebrities, people think that because trans people are looked at as a form of entertainment, they are considered “ours” to view and pick at and judge as we please. But I’m definitely feeling that “being judged as a “real” woman” aspect too. Definitely a part of it IMO.
Would like thoughts on this. :)
Grace
22 Oct 10 at 12:59 am
Sabrina, I don’t find it useful in any way to hear about your cis experiences with your congruent genitalia as a teen.
I find it painful, in fact; as my teenage years were spent as the wrong gender, with incongruous and disgusting genitalia.
cate j
22 Oct 10 at 1:13 am
GallingGalla: The way I understand it (and, of course, I may be totally wrong), Cate J’s post was about people who ask/want/expect to see people’s post-SRS genitalia in order to compare them to society’s idea of “normal” genitalia, and to find said genitalia lacking and the person themselves to be not really of gender [whatever]. (I realize that’s butchering the actual post, so please forgive me!) I, and I believe Miriam, have some sort of curiosity simply to see. Not to compare or judge.
Is this still wrong? Possibly, as there’s still the idea of the person’s genitalia being different, though not somehow “less”. I would imagine it would also depend on how the person in question saw the curiosity. You apparently find it wrong, and that’s fine. Someone else may find it human, and acceptable as such to have and acknowledge it, and that’s fine too.
Seamyst
22 Oct 10 at 5:22 am
I think most are aware of curiosity, but often the expression of that curiosity is still rude. It’s difficult to really justify it because it’s still othering and alienating to hear “I am curious as to how your genitals differ from mine,” focusing on how they’re surgically altered rather than that surgical results are typically within normal variations as it stands. So, they are normal, and comparing them with the idea of “normal” wouldn’t really find anything unusual.
Lisa Harney
22 Oct 10 at 8:17 am
You go, girl!
Resist the many ways the cis rape our bodies. This is one.
Hypatia
22 Oct 10 at 9:02 am
Hypatia: How about not using rape as a metaphor for anything but actual rape?
Janine
22 Oct 10 at 9:31 am
I took it as a paraphrase of Janice Raymond’s infamous quote that trans women rape cis women’s bodies just by existing, and I certainly do not love the use of rape as a metaphor.
Lisa Harney
22 Oct 10 at 9:32 am
And I recall that party scene in the film “Transamerica” where they showed trans women sitting around glowingly showing each other photos of their neo-vaginas… as if everyone was showing off their new cars or motorcycles. Har dee har har.
ginasf
22 Oct 10 at 9:45 am
I’ve never been asked by cis women to see my genitals ( post SRS) apart from my partner. I have shown two of my trans women friends, to help them decide whether they wanted to use my surgeon or another – and the medical support staff when I was recovering were very matter of fact about checking me out 2 or 3 times a day. Apart from that, my doctor. I think there’s such a wide range of cis & trans vaginas that the idea that a trans one might not be good enough is really cissexist.
j7sue
22 Oct 10 at 10:09 am
Hi, Cate. I don’t have a substantive response to your post, but wanted to express my wishes that your surgery goes well and you have an uneventful recovery. Reading posts like these I catch myself going through the same cycle (as a cis woman)…first my jaw literally drops and my instant thought is shock that someone- let alone a friend- would expect to have the right to take a peek at your privates. Then I remember how absurdly far we are from anything resembling healthy, respectful, realistic attitudes about what it means to be trans and I realize that because of my privilege I have the luxury of being shocked by stories like this. Gah.
Cooker
22 Oct 10 at 12:10 pm
Seamyst
I must second GallingGalla’s post, and point out that you haven’t addressed the fact that you DID compare transgender surgery to non-consensual genital mutilation, which was fucked.
Asher
22 Oct 10 at 1:26 pm
Seamyst; perhaps you should examine WHY you are curious about trans genitalia when you are not curious about what non-surgically created genitalia looks like (i.e. you are NOT curious about your cis co-worker’s vagina, but you ARE curious about your trans co-worker’s vagina).
This voyeuristic curiousity is only being applied to trans people. Why do you think that is the case?
cate j
22 Oct 10 at 1:36 pm
Yes, it’s weird how folks want to see (some of them, anyway). I tend to dismiss that as human curiousity, for the most part (depends on who/how/context, of course…though it isn’t happening in any event). What is even stranger to me are people who have permission to see — my gynecologist for instance…who go on about how normal my junk is and how they couldn’t tell the difference and blah blah blah. For the most part, they mean it, I think…but it feels very icky anyway, their genuine surprise is depressing.
My answer to Seamyst would be a little bit different, in that when a person lives in a body which people are always examining for “proof” of difference, it is _not_ fine to be the subject of normal human curiosity. It feels like attack, because it is so regularly prelude to a nasty, totalizing comment about my embodiment. Human curiosity, I think, is kind of like litter on the beach. One candy wrapper, no biggie. But after awhile, the cumulative pile is overwhelming and undeniably destructive.
jessl
22 Oct 10 at 3:22 pm
Who gets to see?
My medical team.
My boyfriend (if I had one)
Pre-op women doing research on surgical results in order to choose their surgeon.
No-one else has “need to know”.
Zoe Brain
22 Oct 10 at 4:52 pm
I understand how such curiosity, of whatever motive, is viewed by you (general-you to the posters and commenters here and elsewhere), and I respect the fact that it isn’t my right or privilege to see post-SRS genitalia. Thank you for addressing my comments respectfully and explaining your points of view.
Asher, I’ve reread both of my above comments, and I simply cannot find any mention of genital mutilation. Perhaps you confused or conflated one of my comments with Miriam’s comment, which does indeed mention genital mutilation. If this is not the case, and you truly do see that I mentioned genital mutilation, would you please point out to me exactly where I did so?
Seamyst
22 Oct 10 at 6:46 pm
I understand how such curiosity, of whatever motive, is viewed by you (general-you to the posters and commenters here and elsewhere), and I respect the fact that it isn’t my right or privilege to see post-SRS genitalia.
I understand why most of you (general-you) view such curiosity the way you do, and I respect that it isn’t my right or privilege to see post-SRS genitalia.
(My thesis-trained brain kept nagging me to fix the passive voice and other errors in my previous comment. Apologies.)
Seamyst
22 Oct 10 at 7:01 pm
…. And apparently WordPress doesn’t like tags. (The first paragraph in my previous comment was supposed to be in strike-out.) I’m really sorry about the back-to-back comments!
Seamyst
22 Oct 10 at 7:03 pm
I do wonder if the cis categorisation of SRS is what causes this curiousity. What I mean by that is the idea that they probably see SRS is a cosmetic procedure, rather than a corrective procedure that is fixing a physical problem for the patient.
For example, if I were a cis woman and had a breast augmentation, my cis female friends would probably want to see the results. But if I had a double mastectomy due to cancer, they probably wouldn’t want to see the results.
I guess that it’s a fundamental misunderstanding of what SRS is for – and a general lack of respect, since being transgender is not seen as a ‘legitimate’ ailment that requires surgery (the ‘healthy tissue’ and ‘functioning organ’ arguments).
cate j
22 Oct 10 at 7:10 pm
But not showing oters your ShinyNewVagina will mean you’ll miss out on all those TOTALLY wonderful “my surgeon is better than your surgeon” conversations…
(Thinking about it, I think everyone that’s seen me naked post op has been at leasr one of one of a partner, trans themselves, a doctor/nurse in a medical context or a blood relative.)
Zoe O'Connell
23 Oct 10 at 3:35 pm
Curiosity is a shit poor reason to violate privacy like that.
Cis curiosity should not be prioritized over our privacy. If anything that’s just as disgusting and dehumanizing as the other reasons. We are not fucking cis spectacles. My pants are not a petting zoo.
genderbitch
23 Oct 10 at 7:39 pm
@genderbitch: “My pants are not a petting zoo.” Nice one, Kinsey. I love it when you make remarks like this that are so candid and witty at the same time.
For the record, I would like to say that I have no curiosity to see the results of an SRS, and I am a cis woman. Honestly, it makes me feel icky – as I’m sure you felt – to think that your friends or anyone else would even ask you that. The only reason I would be curious to see someone else’s private parts (trans, cis, or otherwise) would be if I were interested in them sexually and I wanted to share an intimate experience them, not because I wanted ogle them or judge how “real” they look without allowing them to see me, too. I hope it not out of line to admit that.
Thank you for sharing, Cate. Good luck with your surgery!
Carla
24 Oct 10 at 11:04 am
Seamyst:
You’re right, that was Miriam. Sorry.
Asher
24 Oct 10 at 1:07 pm
Remember that it used to be common to create a sense of mystery surrounding black men’s genitals. This led to curiosity, a curiosity that probably felt innocent for the privileged white people engaging in it, but was entirely degrading for the individual subjected to it.
Today, nobody would ask to see a black man’s genitals simply to satisfy their own curiosity, and it is equally insensitive to want to see a trans-person’s genitals for the same reason.
Summer
24 Oct 10 at 11:28 pm
What Carla said.
I really can’t imagine the thought process that would have someone (in a non-sexual context) asking to see someone’s genitals even if they were curious. (I was curious when I was younger as to exactly what penises looked like; I certainly didn’t think that meant it would be a good idea to ask my male friends to show me theirs…).
Eww.
Morgan
25 Oct 10 at 6:31 am
@Summer
The problem with comparing oppressions (which I don’t necessarily disagree with) is that people usually only do so in order to rank oppressions according to the alleged “progress” we’ve made as a society against each type. But it falls apart because the ranking (nobody would ever say that to a BLACK person and yet they say it to a trans person etc…)… always turns out to be BS.
The mainstream cultural tendency to ask about black men’s genitals is still alive and well. As is the tendency to ask black women about black men’s genitals ( is it true???) and also asking them to rate which races of men have the best/biggest penises in their experience (because black women get around). I was subjected to this very conversation just a few weeks ago.
@ Cis ppl here
I’m not sure what the point is of coming here to testify that you personally have never ever ever done or said any of the inappropriate things listed in cate j’s post, that you never ever would, that you’re not one of THOSE cis people etc…. If this ain’t about you don’t make it about you. Cuz it ain’t.
The thrust of this post I think is fairly straightforward. Asking people you’re not already physically intimate with to see or describe their genitals to you is in bad form. Common decency doesn’t go out the window just because a person is trans, yet clearly alot of cis people need that memo. So please go testify to your own cis peers that you don’t do this and why you don’t. We’re the choir here. We KNOW.
Just my two.
Jane Laplain
25 Oct 10 at 8:02 am
Everything Jane said.
Thank you, Jane.
Lisa Harney
25 Oct 10 at 3:00 pm
Jane Laplain- “Wow. WTF?!? I, as a cis person, don’t do that and couldn’t possibly understand why other cis people feel its their right to probe into something private about a trans person”–sounds like that to me. Shouldn’t have to sound like anything else.
YinYang
30 Oct 10 at 6:55 pm
Yin Yang-
I disagree. It SHOULD sound like this.
“Wow. WTF?!? I, as a cis person, don’t do that but because I don’t live under a rock I’m totally aware of the rampant transphobia present in our mainstream culture. Because I’m so concerned about my trans friends and loved ones, I’m going to make every effort to educate my peers as to why cis people should NOT feel its their right to probe into something private about a trans person. Yanno, so that my trans loved ones don’t always have to do it alone.”
Jane Laplain
1 Nov 10 at 7:29 am
Man, I sorta wish cis women did have some sort of secret vagina-sharing ritual. It’d dispel a lot of bullcrap about what vulvas are “supposed” to look like, and might help some cis women realize that vaginas are all wildly varied whether they’ve seen surgery or not.
But, damn, where do people get off thinking it’s ok to ask someone they’re not currently sleeping with to show them their junk out of mere curiosity? I feel like it comes from the same othering place as white folks asking to touch natural black hair. Not to equate the two, obviously, but I get the same sense of sideshow curiosity from both actions.
Aish
6 Dec 10 at 6:10 pm
[...] My private parts are PRIVATE! by cate j at Questioning Transphobia is to the point: This vetting process is, of course, just another facet of cis people deciding whether or not you’re allowed to be a woman. If your vagina doesn’t match up to their (biased) expectations, then you’re relegated back to the “almost woman” category and looked upon as a kind of second class woman who can never match up the vaunted first class or ‘real’ women. You can guarantee that they will find flaws in your vaginal construction that invalidate your femininity, even though their OWN vagina would not stand up to such intense scrutiny. [...]
Linksplosion: End of year epic linkage edition. « Zero at the Bone
29 Dec 10 at 1:22 am
Rofl I’ve been getting the same thing about whether I had a penis or not since I came out as a transguy when I was fifteen.
Ex-girlfriend’s exact quote; Oh my god EW, so you have a penis now? Is it really huge? Did you get rid of your vagina or do you have both.
I couldn’t stop laughing. I almost messed with her by saying I had a 12 inch penis and two vaginas by surgical mistake. ;) I was pre-everything when she asked, too.
Scottie
18 Jul 11 at 4:37 pm
Most cis-women don’t seem to know that vaginas can be just as diverse as faces. Before I say more, I’d like to say that I didn’t ask and declined multiple offers* over time before I saw it. ~6 months post-op and I was unimpressed; pictures I’ve seen that were less than a month post-op, all swollen and stitched up, still looked more better, closer to any cis-vaginas I’ve seen in person. It made me seriously reconsider going abroad for cheaper surgery. Then quite a while later someone on facebook shared this link “The Great Wall of Vagina”; http://www.brightonbodycasting.com/design-a-vagina.php
*There was also a lot of “I used to be a guy but I have a vagina now so I’m a girl” bullshit coming from this individuals’ mouth whenever meeting new people. I’m resisting the urge to say more after freeing myself from that abusive relationship.
Echo
20 Sep 11 at 10:45 pm